HTML parser changes for customizable <select>
#10310
Comments
josepharhar
added
addition/proposal
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When you say "any tags" do you genuinely believe any element can and should be allowed in an I know that only addresses your option 1, but pretend I am doing similar for options 2 and 3. And if you do mean that, how do you propose exposing that through accessibility APIs? Using my example, if I want to navigate by landmarks, is the main region hidden until I expand the The scope of this suggestion feels more like using a howitzer to swat a fly (that fly being devs who fail to close their select menus). Or at least I am not understanding the benefit for users as outlined above. |
We discussed this in OpenUI here, and the conclusion as I understand it was to allow anything to be parsed/rendered like normal content, but emit console messages showing why it is not correct for accessibility: openui/open-ui#540 @scottaohara do you have any additional thoughts on this topic? |
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That's a lot of reading, but this appears to be the resolution:
Which, ok, the console will tell devs to maybe not do that. However, you are making an issue to allow it. And your take on that resolution is:
Given that...
These aren't questions for Scott as he didn't file this issue. I would like to know your take. |
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The parser changes themselves don't have a11y impact. Web developers can already construct arbitrary node trees using API calls and browsers already have to handle those. This is purely about what trees can be constructed using syntax instead of API calls. Now there is a separate question as to what the new content model of the Let's not conflate them however. |
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cc @whatwg/html-parser |
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I agree that option 2 seems most workable and easier to understand than option 3. I'm guessing that the content model (i.e. what is allowed for authors to use, not what does the parser do) for |
I think you are conflating the accessibility tree with tangible accessibility impact on users. For example, a keyboard user is not impacted by how my construct is represented in the accessibility tree -- they still need to open the select menu to get to the content. Users of Windows High Contrast Mode / Contrast Themes could be impacted based on how this content is mapped to native controls when it assigns user-chosen colors. Authors will absolutely do things like nest interactive controls, conflicting roles, and more. So whether the changes impact the accessibility tree or the content model feels dismissive of my broader question. So forgetting the accessibility tree, what if my construct is: Is the idea that in that scenario a keyboard user has to expand the Yeah, that's a very specific example, but this proposal is making a very broad suggestion without any equally broad statements how things like keyboard navigation would work. Also:
Is this feedback a function of lack of existing support for |
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All I'm saying is that this is not the best issue to discuss that broader question. I also wasn't talking about the accessibility tree. I'm saying that you can create such a construct today. Example: https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/12696. The result is a |
Fair enough. I don't see an issue for discussing the accessibility impacts I raised, though. @josepharhar have you filed that and I can't find it? Also, still curious on the |
Looks like scott filed one here: #10317
I wrote that "I have gotten feedback that requiring developers to write datalist is not great" because developers said that it would be better if they could use the new parser mode without needing to also write |
Indeed he did. And I very much appreciate that Scott did so. But I note it was not filed alongside this issue and he was the one who stepped in to file it after I asked.
Again, what developers? If it was a couple friends of yours, that's fine because it's still feedback but it also doesn't carry a lot of weight. But if it was hundreds of devs as a function of a survey as part of discovery for filing this issue, that feedback carries a lot more weight IMO. |
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It seems somewhat self-evident that requiring |
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Existing sites might have other tags in Maybe we could keep those special-cases and accept other tags in |
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https://ablefast.com/ has Also, https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#parsing-main-inselect:has-an-element-in-select-scope would need to be changed to correctly handle |
Keeping some special cases sound reasonable, but allowing other tags within option without the datalist opt-in would break top.ge (mentioned in the issue description) because it has |
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top.ge is affected by both option 1 and option 3. But it would still be usable, right? I tested inserting the |
Thanks for taking a look, I really hope I'm wrong about this! I'm really not sure exactly what the site is doing, but with my experimental patch to make the parser allow anything, this is what the site looks like: The HTML of each item in that dropdown list before my patch looks like this: <li data-original-index="0" class="selected">
<a tabindex="0" class="" data-tokens="null" role="option" aria-disabled="false" aria-selected="true">
<span class="text"> ყველა (19576) </span>
<span class="glyphicon glyphicon-ok check-mark"></span>
</a>
</li>And with the patch, it looks like this (I manually edited the whitespace/newlines to make it readable): <li data-original-index="0" class="selected">
<a tabindex="0" class="" data-tokens="null" role="option" aria-disabled="false" aria-selected="true">
<span class="text"> </span>
</a>
<a tabindex="0" aria-disabled="false" aria-selected="true"> ყველა </a>
(<b>19576</b>)
<span class="glyphicon glyphicon-ok check-mark"></span>
</li> |
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OK, yeah that looks pretty broken, though still functional. Regarding "break out of |
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Writing this with my TAG hat on, and is the same feedback I would give during a design review. Requiring an opt-in so that HTML content can work in the predictable, obvious way is author-hostile. Elements being dropped within Not to mention it makes it impossible to use this feature via progressive enhancement, since it completely breaks It might have been a reasonable weighing of tradeoffs if the use counter showed a much higher percentage, but 0.3% is actually encouraging as an upper bound for breakage. I suspect for many, if not most, cases within that 0.3%, the change will actually fix content that is currently broken. E.g. in the example given of an unclosed Looking at the compat analysis document (thanks @josepharhar for such a detailed report!), there are 19 websites in there of which 13 are actually unaffected by the change (green). Of the 6 that are marked yellow or red:
Looking at chromestatus it appears there are 117 websites total that do this. How were the 19 in the doc selected? Is it the 19 most popular ones? The 19 first ones? |
The only reason I can think of to use a table in a select would be for laying out the options in a table.
I agree. I am becoming increasingly convinced that we should do option 1 and deal with the compat fallout.
I agree, you're not missing anything. I was just taking some notes without thinking that I'd publish them and decided to use yellow for these websites since I couldn't figure out if my changes would make a difference or not.
Yeah the only one which seemed more impacted was http://tx.7ma.cn/ since there is a checkbox and submit button which no longer get rendered.
If I remember correctly it was just the first 19 ones. I also skimmed the list for websites I could recognize, which there were not many of. |
I can see this being useful for building searchable selects. Like a bounded version of input + datalist? |
That would require far more extensive changes than the parser changes described here to become possible. Also, it's such a common need that it should be possible without having to roll your own UX (in fact, I'd argue browsers should implement it by default for selects with more than say 20 options). |
Based on discussion and developer feedback in the WHATWG issue about HTML parser changes for <select>, we are not requiring <datalist> to be added to the author HTML for most cases. This PR updates the explainer to remove <datalist> in a bunch of places. whatwg/html#10310
* Update HTML parser changes in select explainer Based on discussion and developer feedback in the WHATWG issue about HTML parser changes for <select>, we are not requiring <datalist> to be added to the author HTML for most cases. This PR updates the explainer to remove <datalist> in a bunch of places. whatwg/html#10310 * say slotted instead of put in
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I created a spec PR here, review would be appreciated: #10557 |
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
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Analysis of the mXSS risk with this change: Current parsers will ignore most tags in However, as far as I can tell an mXSS attack still needs something else like a RAWTEXT element to be unfiltered, which is more general and e.g. DOMPurify checks for (demo showing DOMPurify mitigating this attack). Conclusion: sanitizers need to have general protection against mXSS, and so this change doesn't introduce new mXSS vectors, even though the parsed tree can be very different between new and legacy parsers. |
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
This patch makes the parser allow additional tags in <select> besides <option>, <optgroup>, and <hr>, mostly by removing the "in select" and "in select in table" parser modes. In order to replicate the behavior where opening a <select> tag within another open <select> tag inserts a </select> close tag, a traversal through the stack of open elements was added which I borrowed from the <button> part of the parser. This will need test changes to be implemented in html5lib. Fixes whatwg#10310
josepharhar
changed the title
<select><select>
This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676}
This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676}
This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676}
This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 (cherry picked from commit 9776ce6) Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Original-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676} Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5941877 Auto-Submit: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/branch-heads/6778@{#238} Cr-Branched-From: b21671c-refs/heads/main@{#1368529}
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <masonfchromium.org> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <jarharchromium.org> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658 UltraBlame original commit: fdce5c8cbadca9d2447fe36c71dcd93160946cda
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <masonfchromium.org> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <jarharchromium.org> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658 UltraBlame original commit: fdce5c8cbadca9d2447fe36c71dcd93160946cda
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <masonfchromium.org> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <jarharchromium.org> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658 UltraBlame original commit: fdce5c8cbadca9d2447fe36c71dcd93160946cda
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658
Automatic update from web-platform-tests Add InputClosesSelect flag This flag is intended to de-risk the launch of SelectParserRelaxation by partially reverting the new parser behavior to the old parser behavior specifically in the case of an <input> tag being parsed inside a <select>. The old parser would convert <select><input> into <select></select><input>, and based on my research, this is the case that is most likely going to break sites in SelectParserRelaxation: whatwg/html#10310 Bug: 373672164 Change-Id: I33b40d11c2001092aa076a219dd56c5ea86f13f6 Reviewed-on: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/5936092 Reviewed-by: Mason Freed <[email protected]> Commit-Queue: Joey Arhar <[email protected]> Cr-Commit-Position: refs/heads/main@{#1369676} -- wpt-commits: 00e1df7e329f3d11b91d7b2e11a2db63bbd98ef9 wpt-pr: 48658
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@josepharhar would it be possible for you to share an update here on Chrome shipping this particular HTML parser change? I remember I asked during a meeting as well, but I just looked at all the minutes going back to TPAC and couldn't find anything. I think it would be nice if we could proof out these parser changes in other implementations as well as they are so fundamental and I'm wondering what the risk would be. |
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Oh, via the incoming issue link above I stumbled upon https://issues.chromium.org/issues/379034733 which I guess means bad news? |
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For posterity, I posted an update here: #10557 (comment) |
and others
What is the issue with the HTML Standard?
In order to support the stylable select aka appearance:base-select proposal, we need to make changes to the HTML parser to allow more tags inside
<select>, because the current HTML parser basically throws away all tags besides<option>,<optgroup>, and<hr>.Here are options for how we can extend the HTML parser with varying levels of web compatibility:
<select><button>and<datalist>tags in<select>, and allow any tags within<button>and<datalist><select>’s<option>,<button>, or<datalist>1. Allow any tags within
<select>Allowing any tags within
<select>would be good because it is more flexible for developers since they won’t necessarily have to add a<datalist>, but it is the most breaking change of the options I listed. I added a use counter for tags which get dropped in select mode, and it is at 0.3%, which is quite high. I also looked at dozens of the websites with an experimental patch to allow any tags, and while most of them seemed unaffected by allowing anything, some of them were broken:This website has a
<select>tag without a closing</select>tag, and it causes a bunch of the HTML to get put inside the<select>instead of being rendered/parsed after the<select>.This website has a
<select>with additional tags inside the<option>s, but it doesn’t actually use the<select>element to render and instead has some other custom thing which appears to be reading out the DOM contents of the<select>. The dropdown in the website now has a bunch of newlines and odd content in the options.There’s good reason to believe other sites will be affected in a similar way.
2. Allow
<button>and<datalist>tags in<select>A more web-compatible option would be to make the parser allow
<button>and<datalist>in<select>, and then make the parser allow anything inside<button>/<datalist>. These tags correspond to the two visual parts of the<select>as per the explainer. I have use counters for<button>and<datalist>tags inside<select>here, and they have very low usage (0.001% and 0.0001% respectively):https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4771
https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4772
These usage numbers are low enough that we would be willing to ship in chrome.
3. Allow any tags within a
<select>’s<option>,<button>, or<datalist>This is like the first option, but doesn’t allow other tags in between
<option>s. Based on the sites which broke, I don’t think this would be significantly more compatible than just allowing all tags. I also think this might be confusing to developers when arbitrary content can be added inside options but not in between them unless they are all wrapped by a datalist tag.I also looked through the commit logs of both the webkit/chromium implementation and spec (and here) in order to find out what the justification was for dropping tags inside
<select>, and I didn’t find out anything useful. The implementation had minimal context here. When going through the commit log of the HTML spec, I got back to the initial commit of the git repo, which didn’t explain either.My preference is option 2 because it has the lowest risk of breaking websites, but I have gotten feedback that requiring developers to write
<datalist>is not great. Nevertheless, given this compat data I think that’s our best option for moving forward.The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: